Balance Discussion Thread

What features would you like to see in PSForever?
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FateJH
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby FateJH » Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:01 pm

Ryathorz wrote:And they have tried to fix it on at least one occasion (a dev posted that adding sidestep acceleration to the reduce the effect just made the game feel clunky). It is simply exploiting weaknesses in the latency-correcting code and SOE had no easy fix for it.

I think just making it so that sidestepping is not affected by sprint would be enough. Degrado's the starship Strafe so we'd have to ask him what he can set his warp factor to at that speed.
But things like spitfires, motion detectors, etc were never supposed to last long in the face of an attack, they were always just minor speedbumps.

More than that, a bigger concern I have is that most CE is tailored only to ground engagement. Only the Cerebus turret is a "passive" air defense structure worth being called AA-like and it is quite expensive.
Then again, there is the Rocklet Rifle. It's also ridiculously uncommon encounter someone who isn't already lugging around a Decimator.
*doesn't have AV or SA on two of his three characters*
Don't think of it as 'more powerful armour', instead think of rexo as the 'basic' grunt armour and agile as trading toughness for the ability to speed around the map leaping out of reavers on top of people or running them over in a tank.

If to satisfy that definiton of "basic" would we make Agile the one with the certification cost?
VS: FateJH, BR 21 CR 0 TR: FJH, BR 18 CR 1 NC: FateJHNC, BR 14 CR 0
Ryathorz
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:29 pm

FateJH wrote:Then again, there is the Rocklet Rifle. It's also ridiculously uncommon encounter someone who isn't already lugging around a Decimator.
*doesn't have AV or SA on two of his three characters*
Rocklets were always on the rare side. Very good burst damage (better than an AV weapon) but also pretty much guarenteed to leave you reloading mid-fight.


FateJH wrote:If to satisfy that definiton of "basic" would we make Agile the one with the certification cost?
[/quote][/quote]IMO you pay for rexo so that the all-in pilot/driver characters (in a restricted cert environment) are limited to pilot/driver armour. Deliberately gimping yourself as a grunt (albeit not very much) to get those few extra points into hacking, aircraft, or whatever.

I would also consider the empire MA weapons 'basic' rifles for grunts, again worth cert points.
Naeadil
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Naeadil » Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:22 am

FateJH wrote:More than that, a bigger concern I have is that most CE is tailored only to ground engagement. Only the Cerebus turret is a "passive" air defense structure worth being called AA-like and it is quite expensive.

Upgrading turrets to AA with Fortification Engineering is pretty strong.
Last edited by Naeadil on Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ryathorz
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:33 am

Naeadil wrote:Upgrading turrets to AA with Fortification Engineering is pretty strong.
That was fate you were quoting, not me :p

Though perhaps the one-manned field turret is worth revisiting.
Atis
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Atis » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:39 am

Ryathorz wrote:
Atis wrote:5. During last "event" 1 sniper pretty much fcked up all fortifications for an hour. Repairing/upgrading turrets and placing ACE were huge PITA and every time someone hunted him down he was back in 1 min. Actually, if you need to pull mossie for 1 infantryman it's already poor balance.
Lack of players. With larger pops nobody needs to pull an aircraft to go after snipers because there will inevitably be a bunch of them in the air, or tanks taking potshots as they roll past, or friendly snipers.
But things like spitfires, motion detectors, etc were never supposed to last long in the face of an attack, they were always just minor speedbumps.

As i've said about rexo in the past - it's supposed to be the armour used by the grunts. Don't think of it as 'more powerful armour', instead think of rexo as the 'basic' grunt armour and agile as trading toughness for the ability to speed around the map leaping out of reavers on top of people or running them over in a tank.

CE is supposed at least survive till attack starts. 2 snipers can clear whole base and prevent engies from placing new CE.
And you repeate what I said, real counter to sniper is aircraft, another sniper and dedicated hunter. Poor balance as it gets.

About REXO, as FateJH already pointed out, cert costs tell different story. But my main point was about HA. REXO already got speed debuff, now HA should be brought in line.

FateJH wrote:More than that, a bigger concern I have is that most CE is tailored only to ground engagement. Only the Cerebus turret is a "passive" air defense structure worth being called AA-like and it is quite expensive.
Then again, there is the Rocklet Rifle. It's also ridiculously uncommon encounter someone who isn't already lugging around a Decimator.
*doesn't have AV or SA on two of his three characters*

It's not like we can made AA mines, but slight buff to cerberuses would be nice. Mostly in range/dps department. On roofs they can be killed from render distance and being hidden on ground they rarely reach anything. And 2-3 cerberuses can barely scare mossie.


Naeadil wrote:
Ryathorz wrote:More than that, a bigger concern I have is that most CE is tailored only to ground engagement. Only the Cerebus turret is a "passive" air defense structure worth being called AA-like and it is quite expensive.

Upgrading turrets to AA with Fortification Engineering is pretty strong.

It was FateJH and he was talking about passive defence.
Ryathorz
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:20 am

Atis wrote:CE is supposed at least survive till attack starts.
Most of it should if properly placed - spitfires and motion detectors under bridges, up against walls, hidden behind the BFR bay, inside AMS/stealth bubbles. Motion detectors in particular can be squeezed into some pretty awkward spots if you know where to put them.

Anything placed in the open should be a shadow turret or at the very least crammed up behind a tree or crate. The cerberus is the odd one out there as it is a bit of a sitting duck.


Were were you having difficulty with snipers? Courtyard / tower / open field?
Atis
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Atis » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:35 am

Ryathorz wrote:
Atis wrote:CE is supposed at least survive till attack starts.
Most of it should if properly placed - spitfires and motion detectors under bridges, up against walls, hidden behind the BFR bay, inside AMS/stealth bubbles. Motion detectors in particular can be squeezed into some pretty awkward spots if you know where to put them.

Anything placed in the open should be a shadow turret or at the very least crammed up behind a tree or crate. The cerberus is the odd one out there as it is a bit of a sitting duck.


Were were you having difficulty with snipers? Courtyard / tower / open field?

CY and roofs. Cerberuses not on roofs are nearly useless. In many bases snipers can look inside CY from hill, with line of sight under 2 bridges and half of walls from inside. 2 snipers can clear most of CE. Motion spotters are less of problem, they can work through obstacles but spits without good LOS are deadweight.
Ryathorz
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:22 am

Atis wrote:CY and roofs. Cerberuses not on roofs are nearly useless. In many bases snipers can look inside CY from hill, with line of sight under 2 bridges and half of walls from inside. 2 snipers can clear most of CE. Motion spotters are less of problem, they can work through obstacles but spits without good LOS are deadweight.
That sounds about right, spitfires are more meant as traps that jump out and shoot you from a corner than out in the open defenses.

The cerberus is the odd one out. IMO they are most useful away from bases hidden amongst trees and behind rocks - in a base if the snipers didn't get them the AV weapons/maxes/rocklets/passing tanks would.
Atis
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Atis » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:34 am

Ryathorz wrote:
Atis wrote:CY and roofs. Cerberuses not on roofs are nearly useless. In many bases snipers can look inside CY from hill, with line of sight under 2 bridges and half of walls from inside. 2 snipers can clear most of CE. Motion spotters are less of problem, they can work through obstacles but spits without good LOS are deadweight.
That sounds about right, spitfires are more meant as traps that jump out and shoot you from a corner than out in the open defenses.

The cerberus is the odd one out. IMO they are most useful away from bases hidden amongst trees and behind rocks - in a base if the snipers didn't get them the AV weapons/maxes/rocklets/passing tanks would.

Spits in corner with decent LOS is easy to snipe. Well-hidden spit will have little to no LOS i.e. useless. Cerberus in trees away from base won't have much targets, air rarely fly low above empty forest.
Ryathorz
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:20 am

Atis wrote:Spits in corner with decent LOS is easy to snipe. Well-hidden spit will have little to no LOS i.e. useless.
Perhaps you were in a particularly heavily overlooked base at the time.

Just using the layout below as an example - there are a million places you could put a spitfire at ground level where a sniper on the hill would have no chance. Those placed up high though are always going to be vulnerable, if not to a sniper then to AV weapons.
Technology plant--article_image.jpg
Technology plant--article_image.jpg (19.01 KiB) Viewed 8864 times



(I wasn't much of a CE guy back in the day but there was always plenty of it around. Spitfires were first and foremost used for AMS defense though)

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