Balance Discussion Thread

What features would you like to see in PSForever?
Atis
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Atis » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:08 am

Ryathorz wrote:
Atis wrote:Spits in corner with decent LOS is easy to snipe. Well-hidden spit will have little to no LOS i.e. useless.
Perhaps you were in a particularly heavily overlooked base at the time.

Just using the layout below as an example - there are a million places you could put a spitfire at ground level where a sniper on the hill would have no chance. Those placed up high though are always going to be vulnerable, if not to a sniper then to AV weapons.
Technology plant--article_image.jpg



(I wasn't much of a CE guy back in the day but there was always plenty of it around. Spitfires were first and foremost used for AMS defense though)

There is second hill behind base, 2 snipers will cover almost everything. Any place invulnerable to them will have crappy LOS. Now try to find place for engi who repair /upgrade wall turret where snipers won't reach him. On other bases even vehpad is open.
Main point of CE is early alarm, slowing first wave down and preventing fast ghosthacking by random guy. After fight has started restoring CE helps by distracting attackers.
Naeadil
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Naeadil » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:16 am

Ryathorz wrote:
Naeadil wrote:Upgrading turrets to AA with Fortification Engineering is pretty strong.
That was fate you were quoting, not me :p

Though perhaps the one-manned field turret is worth revisiting.


Atis wrote:
Naeadil wrote:
Ryathorz wrote:More than that, a bigger concern I have is that most CE is tailored only to ground engagement. Only the Cerebus turret is a "passive" air defense structure worth being called AA-like and it is quite expensive.

Upgrading turrets to AA with Fortification Engineering is pretty strong.

It was FateJH and he was talking about passive defence.


Whoops! Quote tag fail!
- Nick
Ryathorz
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:29 am

Atis wrote:Any place invulnerable to them will have crappy LOS. Now try to find place for engi who repair /upgrade wall turret where snipers won't reach him. On other bases even vehpad is open.
Put a field generator behind the vehicle pad (between the pad and the wall).
There was never any safe spot to repair turrets when covered from multiple sides by multiple snipers, you have to go out and kill the snipers sooner or later.

And I personally think its a good thing that you can't put automated turrets out in the open and expect them to last long, but that's just me.
Naeadil
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Naeadil » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:58 am

I personally think the balance of CE is just fine. It's intrusive enough that it makes it difficult to enter defended areas, but not intrusive enough that it ruins gameplay.

CE is really good at opening continents and doing base holds. AA tower turrets + tons of CE + boomer traps + proper defensive setup makes it hard for resecure outfits to deal with.
- Nick
Atis
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Atis » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:29 pm

Ryathorz wrote:
Atis wrote:Any place invulnerable to them will have crappy LOS. Now try to find place for engi who repair /upgrade wall turret where snipers won't reach him. On other bases even vehpad is open.
Put a field generator behind the vehicle pad (between the pad and the wall).
There was never any safe spot to repair turrets when covered from multiple sides by multiple snipers, you have to go out and kill the snipers sooner or later.

And I personally think its a good thing that you can't put automated turrets out in the open and expect them to last long, but that's just me.

So you agree that snipers lack of counters - only another sniper, aircraft and dedicated hunter.

Now why are you talking about placing CE in the open?

Naeadil wrote:CE is really good at opening continents and doing base holds. AA tower turrets + tons of CE + boomer traps + proper defensive setup makes it hard for resecure outfits to deal with.

Too bad spits are weakest part in this cocktail, even though they take lots of time to place properly.
Naeadil
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Naeadil » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:55 pm

Atis wrote:So you agree that snipers lack of counters - only another sniper, aircraft and dedicated hunter.


The "counter" to snipers is map control. Pushing out of a base. You begin to lose the advantages you have in a base as you give up ground. Being unable to set up certain things, such as spits, or repairing wall turrets. Eventually, being unable to even go outside without dying instantly is part of the natural flow of base fights.

Every object in the game has strengths and weaknesses depending on the current state of the game. There is a time and place for most everything in the game.
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Sulferix
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Sulferix » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:24 am

Thread seems to have slowed down a bit, so I'd like to bring up a new topic- vehicle speeds.

Let's be real people, aircraft don't even go more than 60 miles per hour at default speeds. A galaxy would get beat by a golf cart in real life.

Technically the game handles high speeds very well. I saw a vehicle speed hack where this guy was going 6000kph and it was just fine. The real issue I see here is Map size and maybe balance in that regard. Maybe make vehicles more like ps2 speeds. I'd like to see what you guys think. Probably not something worth changing, but I'd still like to see some opinions.
The Ultimate Annihilation of Hackers Is Inevitable
Naeadil
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Naeadil » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:54 am

AA has a lot of "homing" mechanics such as the Striker. You'd have to re-balance weapons to compensate for increased speed. Not really a feasible option. I think the air has a good feel as is, anyways.
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Ryathorz
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby Ryathorz » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:55 am

Sulferix wrote:Thread seems to have slowed down a bit, so I'd like to bring up a new topic- vehicle speeds.
I think some of that is going to be the (relatively) slow time to kill in planetside - everything occurs at a pace that gives you a little time to think, react, gang up, etc.

At 6000kph you might as well let players spawn in directly above the bases (though I assume you were exaggerating with that speed as it's more than three times the speed of bullets in planetside). As it stands even the current afterburn speed of smaller aircraft is enough to outrun some of the AA in the game.
p0intman
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Re: Balance Discussion Thread

Postby p0intman » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:55 am

Sulferix wrote:Thread seems to have slowed down a bit, so I'd like to bring up a new topic- vehicle speeds.

Let's be real people, aircraft don't even go more than 60 miles per hour at default speeds. A galaxy would get beat by a golf cart in real life.

Technically the game handles high speeds very well. I saw a vehicle speed hack where this guy was going 6000kph and it was just fine. The real issue I see here is Map size and maybe balance in that regard. Maybe make vehicles more like ps2 speeds. I'd like to see what you guys think. Probably not something worth changing, but I'd still like to see some opinions.

So, the size of maps in planetside pretty much means you can't go TOO fast otherwise it turns travel time into something meaningless. A galaxy is a slow, lumbering beast due to a few things:
Its cargo capacity (1 small/medium vehicle - buggy/ant/ams, and a full squad or so (pilot, gunner, vehicle occupants, 8 droppers)), its armor/health, and its defenses (3 guns, all tuned to take out air).

With a carrying capacity like that, you can resecure more or less any base in the last 30 seconds of a hack, flying at that speed so long as you load up the entire galaxy within the last 8-9 minutes of a hack, depending on flight distance.

With a vehicle like a mosquito, with an afterburner you can more or less travel the length of a large continent (take cyssor or solsar) in a relatively short amount of time.

So unless we're beefing up the overall size of all continents, I really don't see this as a problem. What I WOULD like to see is raising the flight ceiling above 400m. This might require making the entire thing a 64 bit game instead of 32 bit, but there you go.
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